Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211

03/29/2007 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
09:04:02 AM Start
09:07:49 AM Confirmation Hearing, Apoc: Elizabeth Hickerson
09:15:21 AM SB100
09:44:19 AM SB101
09:47:13 AM SB135|| HB171
10:28:12 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Confirmation Hearing: TELECONFERENCED
Elizabeth Johnston Hickerson - Anchorage
Alaska Public Offices Commission
*+ SB 135 ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
= SB 100 SUBSTANCE ABUSE/MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS
Moved CSSB 100(STA) Out of Committee
= SB 101 GUARDIANSHIP AND CONSERVATORS
Moved CSSB 101(STA) Out of Committee
         SB 100-SUBSTANCE ABUSE/MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of SB 100.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:15:21 AM                                                                                                                    
JOHNNY ELLIS, Alaska  State Legislature, Sponsor of  SB 100, said                                                               
Senator Bunde  had earlier asked  the daily cost for  patients in                                                               
the non-secure  "detox" facility,  and that is  yet to  come. The                                                               
number  of   calls  regarding  "high  flyers"   in  Anchorage  is                                                               
forthcoming as  well. The question  of whether a person  must hit                                                               
rock  bottom before  treatment can  be effective  is answered  in                                                               
studies that he  has provided to the committee. He  said the bill                                                               
goes to  finance committee  next, and  the main  rub will  be the                                                               
costs of the  pilot project. The bill will need  broad support in                                                               
the body, he surmised.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:17:14 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEVENS noted  that  he received  a  letter saying  that                                                               
Senator Ellis should be the first one committed.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS  said that person  corresponds frequently  with the                                                               
legislature  and   has  feelings  about  conspiracies.   He  said                                                               
everyone   is   entitled   to  their   opinions.   There   is   a                                                               
misunderstanding;  the bill  will use  an  existing statute,  and                                                               
judges, not politicians,  will commit people. It is  for the most                                                               
extreme cases and he has taken time to educate people.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  said  she  has   had  constituents  in  favor  of                                                               
involuntary  commitment.   One  has  had   tremendous  difficulty                                                               
getting a family member committed, she stated.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS said  it is often family members that  ask for help                                                               
getting someone  committed, and the  statute should  be stronger.                                                               
He said  the American Civil  Liberties Union would  likely oppose                                                               
the legislation  if the  bill changed the  balance of  power. "If                                                               
people  perceive that  someone is  out to  get them  or that  the                                                               
system is  totally corrupt and  people are after  them…I've heard                                                               
from  two individuals  that have  concerns that  this bill  might                                                               
pass and  someone might  try to  involuntarily commit  them. I've                                                               
gone  to  great  pains  to   explain  to  people  it  is  extreme                                                               
circumstances that we're talking about."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:20:23 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH noted a handout  with a cost and health comparison                                                               
of babies born to untreated  and treated substance-abusing women.                                                               
For  the  one-week treatment  for  substance  abuse, the  average                                                               
savings to  the system  was over $30,000  per birth  [because the                                                               
babies  were born  larger and  healthier  and their  stay in  the                                                               
hospital was  shortened]. Looking  at it  from a  purely economic                                                               
standpoint-without  even considering  the long-term  consequences                                                               
of being a small baby--the system is money ahead, he stated.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the  part of  the bill  she likes  is putting                                                               
pregnant  women at  the top  of the  treatment list.  She thought                                                               
that was  already the  mandate and didn't  know the  state wasn't                                                               
following  it. It  is two  lives being  impacted. It  is not  100                                                               
percent, but the  hope is the mother can be  treated and the baby                                                               
benefits, she said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS  said federal grants require  priority for pregnant                                                               
women, but the state doesn't for  its grants. The bill would make                                                               
it clear  in state statute.  One discussion  got caught up  in an                                                               
abortion debate, he said, and "I hope we've transcended that."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:23:16 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said whether a  person is pro-life  or pro-choice,                                                               
it is in everybody's best interest.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE  clarified  that giving  pregnant  women  priority                                                               
treatment doesn't mean they will be sent involuntarily.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS said there is a committee substitute (CS).                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN moved  to adopt  the CS  for SB  100, labeled  25-                                                               
LS0151\N, as the working document.  Hearing no objection, Version                                                               
N was before the committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL HOGAN, Deputy Commissioner,  Department of Health and Social                                                               
Services  (DHSS),  said   he  was  once  with   the  Division  of                                                               
Behavioral  Health. The  change  made  by the  CS  is simple  and                                                               
mandates that DHSS coordinates  with existing community resources                                                               
to ensure  an adequate  number of  trained crisis  responders and                                                               
medical and legal support.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:25:45 AM                                                                                                                    
MR.  HOGAN said  there are  many aspects  of the  bill that  DHSS                                                               
feels strongly about, including identifying people with co-                                                                     
occurring  disorders.  Up  to  70  percent  of  people  receiving                                                               
services have  co-occurring disorders. The department  is working                                                               
on an  integrated behavioral health service  delivery system, and                                                               
SB 100  supports those  efforts. He  said he  likes the  focus on                                                               
evidence-based practice and the use  of research to determine the                                                               
most effective services. Some federal  block-grant money has been                                                               
used on  evidence-based practices lately, and  this will reaffirm                                                               
that focus.  He said  he likes focusing  on outcomes.  Just being                                                               
sober is not good enough; "we  really want folks to be productive                                                               
and  contributing  members of  society."  He  supports the  pilot                                                               
project for involuntary  commitment. He has worked with  a lot of                                                               
individuals forced into  treatment, and it is  not necessary that                                                               
they have  hit rock  bottom to  be successful.  Forcing treatment                                                               
really helps people achieve sobriety and maintain it, he stated.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:28:29 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it will  particularly help people whose family                                                               
members and friends are involved due to their love for them.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  assumed the  fiscal  note  includes the  needed                                                               
personnel. But the CS speaks  to existing community resources. He                                                               
asked, "What are we buying for $2 million?"                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KATE  HERRING, Staff  to Senator  Ellis, said  the first  version                                                               
discussed   the  pilot   program   coordinating  with   community                                                               
resources, and  the program  should fund its  own staff,  but the                                                               
department was concerned  that it would need  to extend community                                                               
service  patrols and  policing. "We  basically inserted  the word                                                               
'existing.'" The intent is to clarify no expansion.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:30:45 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH said  the bill doesn't change  the legal standards                                                               
for involuntary commitment. The  difference is being committed to                                                               
a treatment program instead of a mental institution.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HERRING  said  yes. She  understands  that  the  involuntary                                                               
commitment statute  was underutilized because there  was no where                                                               
to put people who were incapacitated by their addiction.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELLIS said  he has  been impressed  with the  Department                                                               
while working  on this legislation,  and they are willing  to try                                                               
something  new. The  legislature has  been frustrated  with money                                                               
put  into  treatment  programs  that sound  good,  but  it  takes                                                               
longitudinal  studies  and  statistical reporting  beyond  simply                                                               
intuition  or  hope  to  know   the  results.  So  evidence-based                                                               
programming  is the  way  the country  is  going, because  policy                                                               
makers are  sick and  tired of investing  in programs  that don't                                                               
work.  The legislature  was  shocked to  find  that the  D.A.R.E.                                                               
program is  not a good investment.  "We all stood there,  had our                                                               
photos taken with the kids and  the canine units and the police."                                                               
It seemed  to be  a good  program, but  studies showed  it didn't                                                               
work. He said we are not giving  up on young people but trying to                                                               
put  money in  things that  truly work.  He understands  that one                                                               
would want  a program to have  an 80 or 90  percent success rate.                                                               
Maybe 45  percent is the best  to expect, he said.  "But we don't                                                               
know unless  we require  that these programs  that we  invest our                                                               
public dollars in are evidence-based."  That way there will be no                                                               
flying in the dark on good intentions, he concluded.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the big  decision will  be made on  the fifth                                                               
floor. She said she doesn't know how much money they have.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:34:15 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELLIS said  he is committed to work with  all senators to                                                               
get the  bill through. This is  a partnership, and he  is calling                                                               
everyone  to  the table  to  help  whittle down  the  legislative                                                               
fiscal  note.  The  status  quo  has gone  on  too  long  with  a                                                               
ridiculous waste of money, he said.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:35:33 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE said  the bill  is sound,  but he  is disappointed                                                               
that the  Mental Health Trust won't  support it. It is  a general                                                               
fund  responsibility. Mandated  treatment  does not  work in  the                                                               
state, he said.  Looking at $2 million for only  20 people a year                                                               
is not a  gamble he is willing  to take. It might  speed the bill                                                               
up to  take out  the financial implication,  he stated.  He moved                                                               
Amendment 1 to remove Section 8, the pilot program.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH objected  because  it guts  the  bill and  leaves                                                               
nothing but  a wish  list. The real  test of the  bill is  if the                                                               
state can  save money and  save lives by intensive  treatment for                                                               
people with  co-occurring disorders. Senator Bunde  doesn't think                                                               
the programs work,  but there is a study by  Johns Hopkins that a                                                               
period  as short  as  one week  can save  the  system $30,000  by                                                               
focusing on pregnant women. There is evidence that is does work.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:38:22 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELLIS   encouraged  the  committee  to   not  adopt  the                                                               
amendment. If the  bill moves, "we would have  the opportunity to                                                               
work  with all  the parties,  and discussions  are ongoing."  The                                                               
Mental Health Trust is supportive, and  he is telling them to put                                                               
money in. The bill will have  to satisfy the body and the finance                                                               
committee. There are  other sources of money as  well, he stated.                                                               
If the pilot  project is left in the bill,  the finance committee                                                               
is where people  can come to the table. If  that doesn't work, it                                                               
won't pass. Please give him the chance to work on it, he asked.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said the care  for pregnant women  doesn't involve                                                               
involuntary commitment,  so there  is value  in the  bill without                                                               
Section  8. Section  8 is  just a  gamble; there  is no  evidence                                                               
until $11 million is spent, he stated.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:40:06 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE said  she shares some of his concerns  but she will                                                               
let  the idea  go to  the  finance committee.  Innovation may  be                                                               
needed to get the  repeat folks that cost so much  money. It is a                                                               
big  bite for  the state,  especially when  trying to  figure our                                                               
fiscal stability. Section 8 is a big part of the bill, she said.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was taken  on Amendment 1. Senator  Bunde voted                                                               
in favor, and Senators French,  Green, Stevens, and McGuire voted                                                               
against. Amendment 1 failed on a vote of 1 to 4.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH moved  the CS  for SB  100, labeled  25-LS0151\N,                                                               
Mischel,  from  committee  with  individual  recommendations  and                                                               
accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  objected. He  said there were  some good  ideas in                                                               
the bill but the price tag is far too high.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was  taken. Senators French, Green, Stevens, and                                                               
McGuire voted in  favor of moving the CS and  Senator Bunde voted                                                               
against. Therefore CSSB  100(STA) moved from committee  on a vote                                                               
of 4 to 1.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:42:26 AM                                                                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects